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Paul: Good afternoon, this is Paul Drockton, you’re listening to the Paul Drockton radio show and we’ve got a special guest today, Steve Marsden who is also a published author. And we’re going to talk about the er, the potentially faked abduction of Maddie McCann and basically, just to get this started …Brian, er Steve is basically a British citizen and moved to the United States a few years ago and he’s done quite a bit of work with er, er, computers and programming. He’s also a licensed pilot, and drives or fly’s British aircraft. In addition to that he studies history, photography, soccer, rugby, travel, and he considers himself quite the expert on ['cadaver'] and done quite a bit of research on what we refer to as the DaVinci Code. In fact he’s been to Rosslyn chapel quite a few times.
So, let me ask yer, erm, er Brian, what do you think er is the most critical thing we need to know about Maddie’
Steve (Brian): That’s a good question, really er Paul and thanks for having me on the show today. Ermm…the story, story’s just exploded from, you know, three years ago May 3rd when she disappeared. Ermm..it’s just been, a government conspiracy, a British government conspiracy to er, cover up the true circumstances of the disappearance from day one. I think that’s the most insidious aspect to the nature of the British government intervening in the case. They didn’t let the Portuguese police get on with their job, and er, this was exploited with the British media to a sort of a propaganda campaign against the investigators like from day one. And erm…
Paul: So when you say investigators, who, who, who would you name as, or who would you consider to be the investigators of this story’
Steve (Brian): Well he main investigators were the Portuguese CIE which er, the PJ which er judiciario they’re like the equivalent of er, probably like the FBI in the USA. they’re, they’re, you know, higher than the sort of average police guy on the street and erm, the leader of that investigation was Goncalo Amaral and he was on the case from day one and through till October 2nd 2007.
Paul: Can you kind of give us a review of what the, er Portuguese FBI found in this case’
Steve (Brian): Erm, well they were investigating it, getting you know, they were, they were pretty much led in the investigation by this group known as the Tapas9 which were the nine people, Madeleine’s parents with seven other couples ‘ seven other people er…sorry, er three couples and another lady. And they were kinda leading the investigation down the road of abduction but with very little evidence. And…the
Paul: How, how are these …I’m going to interrupt you as we go along because some people are not as familiar with this as…you know, you are obviously and we wanna make sure that we cover some of the questions that they probably have, so we’re talking about seven individuals …are these individuals like co-conspirators …would you…are they, are we talking about a paedophile ring’ What, what exactly are we referring to’
Steve (Brian): Erm, each of the couples, as I say, there’s four couples and another lady so that there’s nine people, nine adults and eight children in the group. They were just friends erm, in each of the couples were at least, like
Kate and Gerry the parents of Madeleine they were both doctors, er, in the other couples there was at least one doctor so they all knew each other from medical school, erm, they went out on the vacation to Portugal for one week, the vacation was organised by one of the doctors within in the group, David Payne…and erm, you know, they pretty much went on what a lot of people would consider an adult holiday er vacation. They went erm, they left the children each day in a daytime, sort of day care cr’he facility and then in the evening they would go out socialising and leave the children back in the apartment so, you know, first question is….
Paul: Were there other children that were with Madeleine’ Is that what we’re talking about here’
Steve (Brian): Well, each of the couples had their respective children you know, so according to their own alibis they had left the children each night in the apartments while they went out socialising.
Paul: Gochyer. What was the oldest child’ Do you know’ I mean…
Steve (Brian): Well, they were all toddlers pretty much, babies in arms or kind of, you know, in strollers or you know, three, four year old. That sort of age range.
Paul: So are we talking about…. they basically locked these kids up at night while they went out and partied’
Steve (Brian): Well that’s a good question because on the original er witness statements on the day after she disappeared on May 3rd …on May 4th witness statements from Gerry and Kate they spoke of erm entering the apartment from a locked door. So clearly in that case you’re right it was locked, but their alibi soon changed to er, entering the apartment through the patio doors which they claimed to have left open.
Paul: So….I guess what I’m trying get at here is you know, very minimum this is a case of neglect, I mean if you’re talking about toddlers and I’m assuming they’re still in diapers [diapers = nappies] or at least some of them were…
Steve (Brian): That, that…absolutely in diapers …they even mentioned that so yes absolutely.
Paul: So minimal charges that could have been filed here were child neglect charges, the fact that they left them er, reportedly left them unsupervised and er, okay, I apologise so ….In, in your book you talk about er, there’s certain questions that er… 48 questions that Kate did not answer. So Kate’s the mother of Madeleine correct’
Steve (Brian): yep, yep that’s right. Kate Healy.
Paul: Okay, so tell us a little about what their story was and then tell us, you know, where you see the holes.
Steve (Brian): Well the very first, we have to look at the very first story in the police file, the witness statements from the day after er, she went missing when they were taken into the police station to give their first account. So the very first account erm, were that ….
Paul: would it be okay if we took calls through this show as well’ Oh I’m sorry Brian,
Steve (Brian): Oh yeah. Absolutely.
Paul: I’m gonna take one, take on right now
Paul: Give me one second …okay so, …we lost the caller so…okay, I’m sorry, go ahead…
Steve (Brian): Okay, so, so , yeah…I’ve got a chapter in my book how the story unfolded and basically, it…. this, this was unanimous that the window and the shutter into the bedroom, the children’s bedroom had been jimmied open or broken, erm, every single person that spoke to the media in the hours after the, er disappearance said that the window had been broken and she’d been snatched through this window, but the interesting thing is that when we see the police forensics erm, dusting the shutter and window for prints on the morning of May 4th, those prints were subsequently found to show that there was only Kate’s and, I think, the police officer who probably examined the window on the night, they were the only prints found on the window. But 94 days after the disappearance and this is crucial, Kate was still telling the world that the window had been smashed open.
Paul: the window, the window was intact and someone had actually appeared to jimmy the door, correct’
Steve (Brian): NO! No, there were no signs of damage whatsoever
Paul: Hmm, just the fingerprints on that door perhaps, so the bottom line is what we’re talking about here is perjury pretty much. Did she say this in court or was there…something else like that’
Steve (Brian): No, they never had any inquest and they never erm, they were never formally charged. Nobody’s ever been formally charged with any offenses in connection, apart from there’s a few people who tried to collect money on behalf of the official Madeleine Fund. Obviously that’s sort of…
Paul: Well, that’s a big issue I think to…we’re gonna get back to it, first we’ll take a little commercial break and I’d like invite yer to visit Crystals Trading er, if you’re considering buying gold or silver or if you’re considering buying more gold and silver you can go to my website er deadmansmusings or Paul drock MA and as you know one of the most popular websites in the entire world er, simply because of our investigative journalism and because of the guests, the high quality guests that we have right here on our program. So if you can visit my website, you’ll see that there’s an ad there for Crystals Trading, the phone number is 888 385 1116 and yer wanna talk to Mike. And they are just amazing erm and able to find what you want as far as gold bullion and silver bullion erm, at the lowest possible cost er yer gold bullion and silver coins whatever it is that yer need to convert your cash into hard currency so that you literally don’t lose it during these times of economic er hardship and we’re literally on that kind of verge of collapse here in the United States. Gold and silver are really the only safest thing you’ve got left er for your retirement and for your savings. So give er Crystals Trading a call the numbers 888 385 1116…..
…okay, so Brian let’s back outta here and so what you’re saying is this, that er there is no signs of forced entry correct’
Paul: And the question I’ve got is that, how much money has this lady rasied er for this fund’
Brian: Oh, the family erm wasted no time in setting up like an official er fund to collect the money, er within days of the disappearance and it was a well oiled machine, they used a very high powered firm of London lawyers to er, set the fund er going and erm, that was kind of a mystery in itself because the family live nowhere near London so they were well connected with a lot of high powered influential people in setting up this fund which raised probably in the region of 4 to 5 million dollars
Paul: amazing. I mean let’s just examine this, I mean this to me is, you know, again thinking about this case is that here you have a er, purportedly grieved parent…right…and, how, how, what was the time between the disappearance the er setup of this er fund’ This request for donations’
Brian: Erm, well they had a website domain registered on May 11th and she disappeared on May 8th …er sorry, May 3rd so that was what, 8 days. And then on May 15th er, four days after that was the official Limited Company that’s formed.
Paul: To raise, to raise donations. Now what types of activities have we seen that they’ve done to you know, find Madeleine, supposedly even look for her, er where’s this money gone, have they spent it on searching for Madeleine’
Brian: No, the thing is they’ve employed some private detectives in the first years of accounts there was 250,000 which is approximately half a million dollars back then with a group called Metodo3 and staying in Barcelona, Spain, this is an outfit that had no track record in looking for people so first of all the recruitment of this company is called into question anyway
Paul: Yeah, so bottom line is what you’re saying is they brought in a bunch of amateurs er that they knew were not the best people for the job.
Brian: Right, right
Paul…so looks like as if er and you said that was 250,000 …have you seen the other expenditures that were made by this fund’
Brian: Yeah, the company have also spent money on a guy called Kevin Haligen who’s actually awaiting deportation from the UK to the US erm, he’s implicated in some er there was a warrant out for his arrest in, I think in the State of Virginia last year erm, because of some embezzlement kind of, type of er activity in the DC area.
Paul: So we’re talking about er…was he…let me ask you this…was he a produciaree(‘) in this fund, did he handle money er…what role did he play, do you know’
Brian: Who, who are you talking about now’ Halogen’
Brian: No, I mean there’s no sign that he was connected with the fund erm, I don’t think there’s any signs on the surface if you like of anybody that they’ve spent money with as being ….er..use the word, say money laundering or whatever but I mean, it’s just that the choice of the company that, the people, the investigators that they used, they just don’t seem to have any track so if they’re using donated funds, you know, why isn’t anybody questioning erm, like, surely you’d go to a company that’s had successes in finding people.
Paul: Yeah, which they haven’t…and has there been any, let me ask you this, has there been any efforts in Portugal to find er Maddie’
Brian: No, er when the police erm, the police wound up the case after, almost after a year of the cold case er, because they didn’t have enough evidence to bring about a prosecution so it’s been shelved as a cold case but erm, i don’t think Portugal have ever really followed the line of a missing person in terms of looking for her because they believed that she, she died erm in the apartment, that was their conclusion, that’s why I wrote my book. My book is actually really just about the conclusion and why the Portuguese police concluded that she had died in the apartment
Paul: Let’s focus on that …so tell me; tell me why er the Portuguese police determined that Madeleine had died in the apartment
Brian: Erm, well first of all they couldn’t find any evidence of any …there’s no physical evidence of abduction apart from the Tapas9 saying she was abducted. Erm, there’s no, there’s no, there was no evidence of any person going through that window, there was no scuffmarks there was no…the Lichen [lie-ken'] on, on the window as not marked in any way ermm…
Paul: The moss correct’
Brian: The moss, yes.
Brian; So here was no sign of anybody taking her through that window, erm, and you know, there was so many contradictions in the ever changing alibis. So, they brought in erm, a police expert dog handler called Martin Grime who erm, had a cadaver dog and a human blood sniffing dog and er, they brought this guy in and he works for the FBI, he works around the world, his dogs have got international passports so they’re used in a lot of international cases with a lot of success and never had any failures and they went into the apartment, I spoke to Martin Grime personally in December a couple of times and er, he outlined the search procedure to me and you know, when he was introduced into the case erm, he called it a clearing run to go into the apartment, he had no idea or any preconceived notion that the dogs would alert in that apartment, but they alerted in the McCanns apartment
Paul: they alerted for blood correct.
Brian: Well first of all he puts the cadaver dog in there and of course if the cadaver dog senses there’s a dead body then he brings in the blood sniffing dog. So, two dogs were deployed separately but the two dogs alerted in the same places.
Paul: Yeah, that’s amazing, I mean that …so the bottom line is the cadaver dog identified that there was a dead body in that house or in that apartment.
Brian: Correct…and that…
Paul: So…and they also found blood…I’m sorry, go ahead.
Brian: yeah, I was going to make the point …I even asked Martin Grime, I said well what’s the chances of somebody planting some evidence in there because you know, there is a product pseudo scent which is often used to train these cadaver dogs but Martin assured me that his dogs do not alert to the manmade product so he said, the only way he could see erm, you know, evidence of the dead body in an apartment is if somebody had gone to the morgue you know, and introduced a real dead body oe you know, items relating to a dead body in there.
Paul: could cadaver been from someone died previously, I mean, how long does the scent stay in the apartment’ I mean how long….
Brian: Well, the police checked the apartment and there was no record of anybody having died before or after the McCanns stayed in the apartment.
Paul: Hm. So bottom line is er this gentleman is saying this dog will not alert on any artificial substance er, that there would have actually have been a dead body in that apartment for the dog to alert and then the second dog was brought in and found blood …okay…so the question I’ve got for yer is … what’s the response from er Kate and er and these dogs, what did she say’
Brian: Ermm…well, the response was that she said she’d come into contact with six dead bodies in her work as a GP as a General Practitioner in the weeks preceding the vacation
Paul: what did the dog hander say to that explanation’
Brian: Er he didn’t. He said you know, I mean he’s a very professional he didn’t make any opinion ot me erm, because as he says his dogs are just a tool in the process, it’s up to the forensics after the dogs have gone in to…you know they’re, they’re …the dogs are finding a needle in a haystack after that it’s down to the forensic guys to examine the needle. So you know….
Paul: have they been able to document that she did in fact was around six dead bodies before she went into the apartment’
Brian: Well that’s one of these factual things that, you know, we know she said that but there’s been no proof or collaboration of that.
Paul: um hum…So bottom line is er, obviously what we have here is we have every reason to suspect there’s enough evidence there to launch a criminal investigation and obviously it sounds like Portugal ..This is outside of their jurisdiction right now or … you tell me. Would they have to actually bring her back into the country for trial or…
Brian: Well, in Portugal, the way there judicial system works they were actually named as official defendants or arguidos in September, early September of 2007, this was soon after the dogs had gone in, just over a month after that and the legal status as an arguido meant they had to report to a police station every five days, er within every week I think it was, you know, there were certain conditions and erm, that legal status only…er…either had to bring about charges or they had to erm, free them from that legal status. So in the summer of 2008 they were actually released from that status when the case was shelved as a cold case. Now the McCanns told the world that they were officially cleared, well that’s not true they were not officially cleared because they were never officially charged, they were just … er…they had their arguido status er rescinded.
Paul: So one of the things we have here of course is that er, not just manipulation but this is the thing, it sounds as if these people’s stories have changed now, it’s er, it’s basically changed to suit whatever information comes out.
Brian: Oh…it certainly has. I mean that’s one of the noticeable aspects of the case that, for instance er, when the police made their er appropriate international rogatory requests with the British government to er, interview some of the suspects in England in 2008 obviously this was a vacation, most of the people had gone back home so, you know, they had to follow it up with interviews in the UK which they did substantially in April 2008 ermm…
Paul: You say ‘they’…who’s the investigators here.
Brian: Well, the Portuguese investigators then liaised with the British, er the British police in the er the county where the McCanns live, this is Leicestershire constabulary and so most of these er rogatory interviews were conducted in Leicester in England and erm, they also made requests for, you know, documentations for instance the McCanns financial records, the erm, medical records of Madeleine but the British government intervened and would not allow Madeleine’s medical records to be disclosed
Paul: Mmmm….that’s crazy. So we’re talking about conspiracy goes right to the top. We’re going to take another quick commercial break here and then we’ll come back er to the story. So obviously what you’re hearing here is disturbing, disgusting and er this is what we do, this is what the purpose of my radio show is, Paul Drockton radio and also the purpose of my site is to expose these criminals and you know I haven’t asked Brian’s opinion on this but I’m assuming these people, if they are guilty of this are also involved in the occult, Satanism, there’s gotta be some connection, there usually is when we talk about paedophiles. If you would like to make a contribution to this effort er you can go to my website and for as little as $5 a month you can become a sponsor. Or if you have a small business you want to advertise as well we have programmes. And as a site you need over 44,000 unique visits per month and obviously here on our radio show we have thousands of visitors that listen in. So, if you want to be part of this, go to my website deadmansmusings or Paul Drockton and er, click on the ‘urgent’ and become a sponsor for site radio button.
Okay, so here’s a question I’ve got, obviously all this is leading to the conclusion, at least I’m having…there’s a conspiracy going on here and erm, can you tell us more about that’
Brian: Well, the amazing thing is as I say, the amount of British government intervention and when I say that I’m talking about the highest level of cabinet ministers,, er, Tony Blair was the Prime Minister at the time er, Gordon Brown was the Chancellor, both of these people made personal phone calls to the McCanns and notably in Kate’s diary she refers to those people has Tony and Gordon as if she’s got some prior connection with these people, erm, you know, there’s a certain familiarity with these people that erm, transcends a normal persons er, if you like, relationship with the government and that’s never been disclosed and I think as public servants, publically elected servants Gordon Brown and Tony Blair should be made to answer for what they’re real role was in the McCann case.
Paul: um hum…so the bottom line is er, I guess it is a question that the reason, that I’m thinking to myself here is, these other kids that were there erm, were they interviewed, were they talked to at all’
Brian: That’s an interesting point as well you see, er, in Gerry McCann’s interview when he was made an official defendant he claimed that the twins weren’t capable of speech but we have a lot of anecdotal evidence where relatives in the family say oh the twins have asked when is Madeleine coming back so we know they did have a good grasping of speech erm, but they never bothered to speak to the children, the twins, er Madeleine had two er twin brother and sister they were younger, they were two years old, er, but notably as well erm Paul on the night in question the twins were fast asleep and with all the commotion in the apartment they never woke and that was a point noted by several police officers.
As well as Fiona Payne who was one of the Tapas9 erm, and she actually commented that Kate kept going up to the twins and putting her hand on their mouth to see if they were breathing. And with all this commotion for several hours the twins just didn’t wake up.
Paul: that’s interesting. So the bottom line is, is that, okay so they did find blood though, or they did scent blood in the apartment so the question is, is it possible that the, you know, maybe the er, suspected murder took place outside of the apartment’
Brian: Well, I don’t think that er…you, you used the word murder there, erm, I don’t think Portugal has ever claimed it to be a murder and…
Paul: aha…I said suspected murder so…I mean, I can express my opinion and that’s what I’m doing.
Brian: Sure, sure, well Goncalo Amaral he erm, he puts forward the theory that she climbed on the sofa and fell off while unattended erm, I personally don’t believe that, you know, but who am I to say…if she died in the apartment erm, there was some erm reports and early reports in September of 07 talking about a blood spray pattern on the wall er [commencing'] a fractured larynx so you know…
Paul: I’m sorry, a fractured…’
Brian: Larynx in the throat. There’s a branch of forensics that can examine erm you know, where a wound was inflicted from the blood spray pattern on the wall or something.
Paul: Are we talking about literally, I mean this is, you know I’m going to ask the questions, but we’re talking about she could have had her throat slit’
Brian: Ermmmm….I mean, I mean there is no particular evidence in the files or anywhere to say if she died how it occurred and erm, I mean one of the cadaver dog also alerted in a flowerbed outside the apartment er, the veranda was about, I’d say, about eight feet above ground level, so she could have climbed and fallen off and fallen into a flowerbed for example. You know, there’s numerous theories…
Paul: the bottom line is you’re talking about a blood splatter pattern here that seems consistent with someone who er, I mean, if you fracture larynx erm, that’s not going to spray blood, if someone cuts yer that’s going to spray blood and so, I mean this again, I’m just speculating here. But the point is, there’s plenty of evidence there for a, for a criminal investigation and that’s the bottom line is that there hasn’t been one
Brian: Well, the criminal examination was erm, sabotaged by the British government as I say, going back to those records, those financial records that came back from England filled one side of paper and it just basically said that Kate and Gerry had no record of bank accounts or credit cards which is crazy because we know they rented a car er, using a credit card so …
Paul: they covered up their tracks pretty much, I mean in other words there’s no way for either you or I do know what they did, where they were at the time this took place.
Brian: Right, and if there was, you know… peoples spending habits is crucial in any criminal investigation but the Portuguese investigators were denied that knowledge.
Paul: So…you’ve got..here…you’ve got ..erm I don’t know, I’m just going to ask you this. You’ve got 48 questions that Kate did not answer can you get into that a little bit’
Brian: Well, she basically ['] the fifth on every one of those questions er, if you ask me if I can just bring up the questions here…now..
Paul: No, that’s okay, I don’t think we need to get into … you’ve got your book and this will be a good time, tell people how they can get hold of this book.
Brian: yeah, if they visit the website which is erm, fakedabduction.com they can order it directly online from, form the website, erm, they can order, if they order quantities for 4 to 9 books there’s a discount on the handling fees but erm, at the moment it’s sold, the book is sold into six different countries er the UK, the USA er, Portugal, Germany Spain and Belgium and er, you know it’s provoking a lot of interest.
Paul: Well hopefully it will bring about er you know, I mean this is what we’re dealing with here, internationally, you know, we’ve, we’ve already uncovered erm you know, on this radio program and through our site in numerous paedophile rings that are operating at highest levels of government and erm, you know one of the things that you bring up as well is that you talk about er, David Payne’s paedophile allegations
Brian: Well there was…the British media has commented on the case as it’s gone along but one, notably one piece of information in the British media has never talked about is erm, there was some er witness statements thirteen days after Madeleine disappeared in England, erm, two doctors who were friends of the McCanns went to Leicester police station to make a report about er an earlier vacation in 2005 in the Spanish island of Majorca erm, now on that vacation there was the two witnesses er, the Paynes and the McCanns and erm, there was a conversation between Gerry McCann and David Payne er that was er that was overheard by these two witnesses and er, it was highly inappropriate discussion which they deemed to be sexual and talking about Madeleine
Paul: This was after her death’
Brian: No, this was in 2005. The doctors were concerned er they had, they had concerns about this holiday that they’d be on in 2005 er and she disappeared in 07 so this was two years before she disappeared and so this inappropriate discussion erm, you know, they went to, naturally went to the police to erm, explain their experience back in 2005. Now that information….
Paul: They filed a police report’
Brian: They filed a police report. Now that information was deliberately withheld by Leicester police and not handed to Portuguese investigators for almost six months
Brian: they didn’t send it until October the 24th and er, by that time the chief inspector had been pulled off the case.
Paul: Jeez…so let me ask you a question. These two individuals okay, that we’re talking about, what happened to them’
Brian: Er, do you mean the witnesses or’
Paul: yeah, the two witnesses
Brian: Er, they’ve never been heard of, I mean we know from the police files that they made that statement and erm, I don’t think they’ve been interviewed by anybody. Er, my, my, my sort of guess is that the British media have been gagged on that aspect, a bit like the Hollie Greig case. I think that, you know, talking about the er, Payne/McCann allegations in Majorca is taboo and I think that’s the aspect the McCanns have tried to get Goncalo Amaral’s book injuncted ['] on that basis.
Paul: Okay…so bottom line, let me …we’re going to have to take another break here real quick and erm, what I’d like you to do is if you are around my website is, you’ll see there’s a nice little green band there for the surge ex pro… [snipped]
Okay…so, this is, this is the question alright. Were these individuals, this is what we’ve found in like….let me give you another example in Jon Banay case. They were actually putting Jon Banay in this beauty pageant and er, there’s been a lot of er, evidence that seem to point, you know, that these childhood beauty pageants can also be used to er, erm, prostitute children, you know, for the use of, of paedophile elite and er, were they involved with anything like that with Madeleine’
Brian: Ermmm….I don’t, I don’t see any evidence of that whatsoever, erm, you know, I’ve got to be honest there erm, in fact…in fact..
Paul: We’ve got a caller here….Go ahead you’re on the air. Hello’ Hello, you’re on the air. I’m sorry, go ahead.
Brian: Yeah, erm, I was going to say and I stress this point, that, the actual evidence that we see and all the hearsay from the friends and neighbours of the McCanns is that they were, you know, typical loving parents of, you know, three young children so the bizarre thing is if they were so security conscious, so er, caring towards the children you know, why did they leave them every night’ So there’s a clear conflict anyway erm….
Paul: We’re going to take a call here…I’m, I’m sorry…are you there’ Are you there’ Sorry, go ahead. Are you there’
Yeah, hi, I’m here.
Paul: My apologies, we’re just er…people are hanging up before we get to them. But this is such an interesting topic I mean, no honestly, I want to hear you talk about it so …if you’d like to call in the number’s [number delted] and let Brian have the chance to finish his statement and we’ll get you on the air…okay I’m sorry…
Brian: Yeah, erm, it’s just a mystery all round really and er and it’s just been covered up in a similar way to you know…you’ve had Anne Greig and Stuart Usher on your show recently and so you know the er…the way that the er British establishment can cover these things up. And no doubt this occurred with the Madeleine case. Now I think in the Hollie Greig case they were able to stop a wildfire by fanning the flames before they got too big erm, but in the Madeleine case because of its international erm, publicity and the nature of the disappearance they weren’t, they weren’t able to suppress the stories so what happened, instead of suppression erm, there was a sustained campaign of propaganda and so they brought in a guy who use to work for the British government called Clarence Mitchell who is a er, he worked for the Media Monitoring Unit in the government which is basically the governments propaganda department and he was brought in er, within days of the disappearance and erm, he had a clear hand in manipulating the British press to produce stories that were ostensibly were just that ‘ propaganda, just in favour of the McCanns
Paul: He’s a spin doctor
Brian: He’s a spin doctor, yeah.
Paul: Who pays for this guy’
Brian: Well, initially he was paid for by the tax payer because he was seconded to the McCanns from the Foreign Office so he was actually, initially employed by the British Foreign Office to go around as, as, you know, their PR man.
Paul: mmhmm…so what we’re talking about here is the government, the British Government actually got involved in er, suppressing the story
Brian: Correct. Yes.
Paul: We’ve got other allegations out there right now of er, paedophilia in er, you know, in the highest levels of British government don’t we’
Brian: It would appear so, yes. There’s a lot of stories, I read a story about Mike James recently er, looked very controversial
Paul: Can you tell us a little bit about it’
Brian: What ‘ Mike James’ story’
Paul: ummhmmm…you know, let’s talk about some of the other things that are going on right now. A lot of my listeners are you know, throughout the world and we don’t erm…we don’t …
Brian: Sure. Well, the Hollie one…well obviously the one that’s the topic right now is the Hollie Greig story, I’ve devoted six pages to that in the book as well and erm, you know, that is just an atrocious, an appalling case of erm, you know, these lawyers and especially, what is it, the Lord Advocate of Scotland erm, you know, covering up a story which is erm in the public interest. What I’d like to know is why these people don’t rebut these allegations and they always feel that they have to cover them up.
Paul: Well, it’s interesting you say that because I just published an article today where the sheriff of Scotland came out and er got a gag order against Robert Green. Now they’re calling Robert Green who was a journalist, they’re calling him like an attorney advocate, now the guy doesn’t practise law he just writes articles. So they’re trying to turn this into you know…I don’t know…I honestly…to me the more you cover something up the more people are gonna want…are going to ask questions. I mean, that’s pretty much your experience isn’t it Brian’
Brian: That’s always the way, I mean I’ve experienced that here and in the USA as well. I mean, it’s erm, you know, there’s, there’s…this goes on in every country of the world I’m afraid and it’s seems that the more powerful the more rich these people are they can manipulate the lawyers to gag people and silence them. And erm, you know, that’s the kind of an attitude that we thought that was prevalent say in Russia in the cold war days but this is happening in Britain which is supposed to be a free Western democracy….er…you know, we know, we know it’s not. And we don’t want that attitude, we need openness, we need to be able to talk about these things.
Paul: Well here’s a theory, you know, I’ll throw this at yer. I think that the reason why this case has gotten so much publicity is simply it is a distraction erm, it’s been a distraction. Not only…it serves two purposes…one covers up what the …for the er, you know…for the McCanns but I think the second purpose is that, you know, there’s gotta be a channel for emotion and for energy and er, when the government gives us er a release like in this case, you know, we can all spend money and donate money to the McCann fund you know, and we can go out and hang up posters looking for her…well, that’s, that’s ..all that is, is just a way for them to siphon off the energy that really, really need to be devoted towards exposing these people. Any comments on that’
Brian: Well the fund is certainly a mystery because the McCanns are directors of the fund, they’ve also got er Gerry’s brother John who is the chairman of it and then you’ve got erm, Kate’s uncle Brian, he’s also a director. So you’ve got four family members on the board of directors there, you’ve also got Ed Smethurst, he’s a 30 year Free Mason er, who’s also ….er…now the interesting thing is, the company, the law firm that set up the fund is probably Britain’s, one of the er largest law firms representing Free Masons and Free Masons charities. Now they don’t advertise them on their website. I found that through considerable research.
Paul: Interesting. So we’re talking that the Free Masons are behind funding this er McCann fund’
Brian: Erm, well you know, the, the Bates Wells and Braithwaite law firm behind the Madeleine fund they’re also the lawyers for the Grand Charity which is Britain’s largest Free Masons charity so …yeah, there’s a clear business connection between a lot of Free Masonry involvement and the McCann …er…the Madeleine fund.
Paul: Okay, so we’re going to take one more break here and er …[snipped]
We’ve got a few minutes left here and er…Brian, I am definitely going to have you back on this show and er…go ahead…you’ve got three minutes …what else would you like to tell us’
Brian: Yeah, I’d like to just say a few words for the inspector Goncalo Amaral who erm, was as I say, he was pulled off the case and even Gordon Brown knew about that before he was fired. Erm, the, erm, inspector wrote a book called ‘The Truth in the Lie’ which was a best seller in Portugal where he, you know, he told us about some of the hidden details of the case. And in September of last year the McCanns filed an injunction in Portugal to have this inspector’s book er banned from sale, and after the hearing in January and February of this year the judge actually er held a decision and the book is banned. His book, his opinions about his involvement in the police case and the McCanns have said they wanted the book banned because he is saying that she er Madeleine is dead and therefore people won’t look for her if they believed she’s dead. Erm, one of my websites I have an opinion poll of a 5,000 documented people where two out of three people believe she’s dead anyway. So you know, it’s er
Paul: they’re going to do everything they can to suppress the truth, that’s what this sounds like to me.
Brian: yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
Paul: Everything. And the thing is it’s not only them, it’s the er British government
Brian: That’s right
Paul: Once again, this is a huge outrage, there’s things we can do and erm, we’ll talk about that, first thing we need to do we need to get your article out er, get the article published and probably a series of articles and also promote your book so people can read this and er
Brian: Thank you
Paul:…there’s other things we can do…one of the things I..we can also do is create a petition for people to sign, demanding that… you know… these things er come out and demanding a criminal investigation into these things. I understand that erm, you know… I’m not… I personally couldn’t care less about what people can do or what they want to do as far as threats and things like that ..erm, but I’m sure you’ve had some of that. Give me some idea of what kind of harassment you’ve had to put up with just to get this information out there.
Brian: Well I’ve been covering the case for three years now with my websites and I’ve had a lot of, I mean, I can vouch for a lot of say hate mail. You know, there’s a lot of people who they don’t want you to investigate this stuff you know, and you’ve got to query why would random people not be wanting you to investigate. You know, why was erm, Martin Smith the guy who saw a man that in, he later pronounced he’s 80% sure he saw Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine in another part of the town late…on that night and er, you know, he hadn’t come forward and er, somebody connected with the Madeleine fund contacted Martin Smith months after this appearance. You know, why are these witnesses being tampered with’
Paul: Yeah, so what we end up with is …when he saw, saw the dad carrying Madeleine was she awake’ Was she alive’ I mean did he say anything about that at all’
Brian: Well in his testimony he initially told police he’d saw a man carrying a girl about ten to ten at night which was ten minutes before Kate supposedly alerted to say she’d disappeared and erm, you know, months later when Martin Smith saw Gerry disembarking off the plane carrying his son, that jogged his memory and he said ‘that was the man that I saw!’ He claims he’s 80% sure in the police files
Paul: Wow. Well we, we sure appreciate you being on the air, we’re gonna start er, helping you with the publicity on this and er…give us one more ..give us your web address one more time so people can buy this book.
Brian: Okay, yes, it’s fakedabduction.com and er, the book is on sale.
Paul: Awesome. Well it was great having yer and er obviously I’m going to commit you to appearing again on the show so we can talk about this again in a little more detail.
Brian: yeah, I’d like to do that, thank you.
Paul: And er … no problem…and er again this is er Steve Marsden who is the author of the book and the title of the book is…go ahead, it’s all you…
Brian: Faked Abduction
Paul: Faked Abduction and the website you can go to get this book is …
Paul: fakedabduction.com, I’ll have that in the articles. So thank you very much for coming on the show and er I’m going wrap things up over the next ten minutes. Okay.
Brian: Okay. Appreciate it
Paul: thanks, bye.
Paul: So here we have, obviously there’s quite a bit of evidence here that is not being presented or has not come out in the public and you know, you’ve gotta…it’s just a huge conspiracy and I wonder or not anything, any foul play took place here. There surely is enough evidence here for at least an inquest in Great Britain. Er we have the potential for fraud; we have the potential for erm, all kinds of bad things that er could be here. I mean, we’re talking about er five million dollars erm, that’s been raised for er…or five million pounds, I’m not sure which one, but er the point is, that’s a ton of money er, I think some people deserve some accountability I mean, what have they done with this money’ Where’s it gone’ Where did they spend it on’ The other question is, why don’ we have statements from the other children or other witnesses, why haven’t they been interviewed’ Why has er testimony been suppressed’ The example is the gentleman who saw er reportedly saw erm the father of er Maddie carrying her around at the time she supposedly disappeared.
Er, we’ve got two cadaver dog…er one cadaver sniffing dog that alerted in the home, we’ve got one blood sniffing dog that alerted in the home, we’ve got er reportedly they detected blood spray pattern that would be consistent with some type of damage to the larynx or to the throat. Er, there’s just tons of evidence there. And you know, Great Britain is ….[sighs] this is just another connection in the, you know, the big picture which is..I’ve been trying to convey on this show which is that we are…we’ve been literally taken by these satanic paedophiles and these people are Satanists. No one that worships God would do these kinds of things, would be involved in these kind of things er that we’re seeing, what my colleague Greig, like what we’re seeing with some of these other people that are out there and…we need your help. I mean, there’s two petitions right no on my website that I need you to sign er, one has to deal with Hollie Greig and erm Mr Green, the journalist who just got gagged by the er sheriff who was one of the alleged abusers and er, the second one has to deal with editor Joseph Cannon in Utah here in the United States. Er Mr Cannon sat on a paedophile story er, a leading republican that just resigned from the Utah state house er, came out and admitted that he was naked in the hot tub with a 15 year old girl, who was 15 at the time. We don’t know if she was 15 and I don’t know if in fact their relationship started before that. We don’t know. All we know is what they report and that was she was 15 at the time and that this allegedly happened. This poor girl is being [demonised '] by the Utah media right now, they’re just beating her up because she came forward. And er, literally she has been successful in ending this er paedophile’s career. We’re talking an individual that is in one of the highest elected offices within the state of Utah.
Now as a Mormon, I can’t tell yer how deeply offended I am that er this is being treated the way it is. You don’t go after victims. You don’t persecute people because they tell you er that someone in authority is doing things that are just egregious and I think this is going to turn into bad things, other bad things, other bad things are gonna come out because, you see, once one person has the courage to come out and tell a story then others will follow.
And already there’s reports of another girl in Utah that was also er involved with this guy. And normally a paedophile will have anywhere between 30 to 40 victims for every one they get caught with.
Now getting back to Maddie, we have two witnesses that heard her dad, her father, with another gentleman talking about er sexual relationships with this little girl. And er, this is just, this is just unbelievable that this is being suppressed. And this book is probably one of the things, one of the greatest things this gentleman’s done a ton of research and I really invite you to go through the articles that I’m going to be publishing over the next couple of days about this and I want you to take a look at this book, you know, acquiring it er, we need to support people like this. And er, we also need to support any efforts to bring justice to our children.
And with that said, erm, I wish you the best my friends. Remember God’s in charge, not these people. These people are evil and evil has its bounds and limited in what it can do. God doesn’t have any limitations. And just remember that and just keep everybody in your prayers, keep us in your prayers, keep Brian in your prayers and er, I promise you I’ll do the same and with God’s help we will not only expose these individuals but we’ll drive them back into the darkness where they belong.